Zamosc's Worry

  • Zamosc's Worry
  • Zamosc's own formulation
  • Submit attempts to allay Zamosc's Worry
  • Read Aaron's attempt
  • Read Jai's attempt
  • Professor Martin weighs in
  • Read Jai's attempt to transcribe Stocker's attempt
  • Read Nate's attempt to deal with Prof. Martin's lowdown
  • Enter...ZAMOSCIA
    Zamosc's Worry: Isn't Brentano's Thesis tautological?

    Elaboration: Brentano claims that all mental states "contain an object immanently within themselves." But then he defines mental states as states which contain an object immanently within themselves. It seems therefore that Brentano's Thesis is a trivial tautology.

    Analogy: Suppose that Newton's thesis was that all planets move in ellipses, but that it turned out that he simply defined planets as "objects which move in ellipses." If that were Newton's position, then Newtonian mechanics would be a trivial tautology, rather than a substantve contribution to science.
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    Zamosc's own formulation:

    In the passage we read Brentano distinguishes between two types of phenomena: mental and physical. He claims that what is special about all mental phenomena is that they contain an object within themselves, an object which has a peculiar sort of property, namely, it is intentionally inexistent. The worry is that in trying to spell out what it means for an object to exhibit this special trait we may find ourselves uttering the apparently empty tautology "all mental phenomena contain, involve, are directed towards an object which is mental"; or, reducing the assertion to its simplest expression, "all mental phenomena are mental."

    (Notice, though, that it is questionable whether this reduction is legitimate. It seems to me that the claim that all mental phenomena contain a mental object may be significantly different from the one that states that all mental phenomena are mental).
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    And here they are...

    Attempt #1:
    In 1609, Johannes Kepler published "Astronomina Nova", in which, among other things, he stated his so-called "first law of planetary motion", which states that the planets circle the sun on elliptical orbits (Microsoft Encarta '95, (c) Microsoft). From that time on an elliptical orbit has been an integral aspect of the definition of a planet.

    In 1874, Franz Brentano published "Psychologie vom empirischen Standpunkte", in which, among other things, he made the observation that mental phenomena hold an object within themselves and that physical phenomena do not. He then proceded to add this attribute to the definition of mental phenomena.

    Rather than creating a trivial tautolog, Brentano observed a single common and exclusive positive atribute of mental phenomena and added it to the definition of the same.

    Aaron J Blue
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    Attempt #2:
    Brentano seems to be trying to get at something when he talks "tautologically" about mental phenomena. As Prof. Martin said, he was an "idea man," as well as sloppy. If we can give him the benefit of the doubt and try and see what he was trying to get across in formulating his thesis in such a way, the tautology "problem" may become irrelevant.

    As we figured out in class, Brentano's thesis can be reformulated as (roughly):
    "All mental states hold in in/out being." Here are somequestions I have:

  • what is "in/out being"?
  • what does it mean to hold that in?
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    The Professor Speaks:
    Here are some thoughts about how to allay Zamosc's Worry:

    1) One way to go would be simply to excise the notion of definition from Brentano's thesis altogether. In effect this is what we have been doing in discussing Brentano's Thesis in class. Our canonical formulation went something like this:

    Brentano's Thesis: All mental phenomena and no physical phenomena contain an object immanently within themselves.

    Cast in this way, Brentano's Thesis doesn't make a claim about definitional matters at all. It starts with a distinction that we intuitively understand (the distinton between the mental and the physical) and it makes a claim about one way in which these two domains differ.

    On this first strategy, then, we simply deny that Brentano is really offering us definitions at all.

    2) A second, and somewhat less stong-armed tactic would be to allow that Brentano is indeed offering a definition, but insist that it is an extensional definition. That is, his definition is not telling us what the concept "mental" means (its intension?); rather he is telling us something about what all the members of the set of mental phenomena have in common.

    3) (a version of blue's solution?) Yet a third strategy for dealing with Zamosc's Worry would be to invoke another astronomical analogy. Suppose that a group of astronomical researchers began to notice a certain pattern of unusual astronomical phenomena in the vicinity of the star Beetlejuice. Later, they notice similar patterns in the vicinity of Vogon. They publish their findings. Since it was Zamosc who had initially drawn attention to the Beetlejuice case, the phenomena comes to be known as "Zamoscia." At this stage, however, little is known about the underlying astronomical mechanisms which produce Zamoscia.
    So begins a research project. Studies are made, findings published, doctoral dissertations written. Other examples of Zamoscia are reported. After a few years of this, the decisive breakthrough is made. Someone discovers that there is a common physical mechanism at work in all the known cases of Zamoscia. This claim is debated and comes to be accepted by the main players in Zamoscia research.
    The outcome of this little story is that Zamoscia comes to be defined in terms of the physical mechanism that has been discovered. When the textbook writers come to include Zamoscia in their textbooks, for instance, they define it in terms of the physical mecahnism.
    The idea here (blue's idea?) is that extensional discoveries can come to figure in definitions.

    Do any of these solutions work? Has Zamosc's worry been allayed? We all eagerly await ...

    Zamosc's Reply.


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    Jai on Stocker:
    As Mr. Stocker suggested: What happens if we consider Brentano's thesis not as a tautology, but rather as a stipulative definition? In other words, Brentano begins by pointing to a particular aspect of mental phenomena, namely that mental phenomena are "directed toward an object," an aspect which he says is exhibited by mental phenomena but not physical. So, two paragraphs later, Brentano is simply using this distiguishing aspect of mental phenomena to state a stipulative definition, i.e. a meaningful technical definition which he tells us he wants to use in his paper. Thus rather than being trivial, Brentano's definition is more of a helpful reformulation of what mental phenomena are.
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    Nate's side of the story:
    Wayne's most plausible attempt at allaying Zamosc's worry seems to be the third one. Remember the the title of Brentano's work is "Psychology from an Empirical Standpoint." The pretense, if not the execution, of Brentano's work is that he isn't doing "armchair philosophy." Brentano is supposed to be doing philosophy as science. It is true that in the short excerpt we read there is little science being done (by this I mean there is a lack of hard experimental evidence to back up his claims). But this needn't be fatal to his thesis. We just need to investigate it some more.

    -Nate
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